10 Questions: Aurélio Mesquita - Rocinha Slum Community Leader (Brazil)

Here at Rocinha public politics are starting to appear, but I said starting ... And that’s a good thing. But a revolution ... what would make me start a revolution ... in fact would be art. I believe theatre is a kind of revolution where you don’t have to shed blood, got it? So I would do it and the reason would be popular art in Brazil and Latin America. We should all know it better -- it is better quality than soap operas.

What does democracy mean to you?
For me it is exactly what we don’t have here in Brazil. But it would be a good thing to have because I think that’s the best kind of regime. I believe Brazil could have a good chance to use democracy to serve people. But regretfully it hasn’t happened yet, we‘re in the process. Maybe someday.

Is democracy good for all?
It is for those who like it. And a tyrant shouldn’t like it. But since I’m talking about Latin America, Brazil, I reckon that for us, Brazilians, it is a good system. I emphasize that it’s not being applied to its full potential, but it’s good still. Whoever doesn’t like it might be a tyrant.

What do you think is wrong with democracy?
Because it is a democratic system you can find lots of dishonest people that exploit it. Here in Brazil, for instance, you couldn’t count the number of criminals that steal your money during the day and then by night on television support democracy.

But what do you think is wrong with democracy?
Here’s what’s wrong in Brazil: First, our education is very weak, got it? Like "make believe". Teachers pretend to teach, government pretends to pay them for that, students pretend to learn and no one is learning anything. I think that what might be wrong is that democracy should be taught in school, with your family, in church, in any place, it really should be taught. Tell people that in a democratic system they've got to be able to give up some things so democracy can grow.

Who would you vote for president of the world?
If there was an election for president of the world I would nullify my vote, I don’t think the world deserves a president. Unless we could all have sort of a “president’s tag”, like a label. The world doesn’t need that. What is needs is more interesting people, aiming to promote peace, justice and democracy. Not a president.

Do you think that terrorism could destroy democracy?
It’s too complex because here in the western world we hear about terrorism through people that are terrorists' adversaries. So, we only know what they choose for us to know. In Middle East issues we are told they are the “bad guys”. It’s all selected information.

And so, I will not buy it only because North Americans and Europeans portray them as terrorists. I even believe that terrorism could be a first step in order to really have a democracy. I’m not sure, it’s just that the idea that the bombers are evil because of what they are doing doesn't completely convince me, got it? I would have to know more about what those guys think, because we only know that through America’s point of view.

It's easy to give you an answer like: Bin Laden is terror itself, is evil, or something like that. But things are not like that, you know? But I’m not saying that he is a God, but I would have to know more. Therefore I don’t think terrorism is opposed to democracy, it might be even good, but I can’t say that for sure.

Is it important to vote?
It’s important but more important than that is that those who vote have the capacity to do so. And you can even say that what I’m saying is a dictatorship, that people vote wrongly, but in fact they do, they vote for someone in exchange for a t-shirt, a bag of cement, false teeth, I mean, if we have a democracy people wouldn’t be voting in exchange for these things. They would vote through their conscience, believing that a candidate will defend their rights, create jobs, will offer them a better life. That’s the only thing that democracy gives us here in Brazil, but the most important thing is to learn how to vote.

Do you think that women are more democratic than men?

I don’t know if they are more democratic, but surely they more interesting. But I think they are, you know, they are more sensitive, even when they have to call someone’s attention. In everything they are more interesting…

Do you think God is democratic?
If he exists, maybe he would be democratic. But, no, he isn’t, even if he exists. But I doubt his existence, got it?

I think that if ... the thing is, each culture has its own beliefs. For me God is nature, and she is democratic. You won't find anything more democratic than her. But I know that most of the people don’t think like me, so I’ll simply answer, no, God is not democratic.

Do you think that a dictatorship can be good in any way?
What a question ... Because what is a dictatorship? In Brazil for instance, do we live in one? If you ask anyone will say: No, we live in a democracy. But it’s not true. There are a lot of things out there that you can call a dictatorship. But I don’t like to impose things, so my answer will be no, I don’t think a dictatorship contributes to anything, got it?

Do you think that democracy can solve climate change?
Yes, I think so. I think that this kind of question, for a crazy guy like me, is difficult, you see? You better ask a scientist, he would give you numbers of how many animals were killed, trees were burned, and so on ...

But I believe that democracy could help us solve many problems that are still small ones yet. The big corporations don’t seem to care much about that, but tomorrow my kids and my grandchildren will suffer the effects.
In that way I think democracy would help us solve some of big issues in Brazil, absolutely.

I’ll say something else; a way that democracy could solve these problems is that if it really exists in our country we should have major participation from parents in school, students' participation. For sure climate-related questions would be brought up at school and then our children would be able to think about it -- in which way could they help solve the problems. We created these problems and we should be able to solve it, otherwise it will be impossible to live here 50, 100 years from now.

Do you think that democracy is good for everyone?
Yes, it is for anyone who wants it and enjoy living in a democratic regime. But for those who don’t enjoy it ... it isn’t good. But democracy ... I’ll tell you something, I’ll really celebrate when it improves here in Brazil, you see? People will ask: "How come you don’t have democracy here? You can say whatever you want?" Yes, that’s true, and then what? Does it resolve anything?

When someone writes in a famous international magazine or in the newspaper, television and in any other kind of media, it’s important that my voice can also be heard. That is democracy. But, instead, someone writes in a magazine, a famous one, international, that an area in Rio de Janeiro is dangerous, and then I write back a letter, and can’t find the same opening to express my point of view. This is not democratic. This is not democracy, got it? So ... Democracy is a good thing for those who like, and I think Brazilian people like it. We like it so much that we have been battling to re-democratize the country, but it is a long journey.

What do you think is wrong with democracy?
See, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with democracy, what is wrong is the relationship people have to democracy, got it? Only a few people have a relationship with it.

Because when you vote for someone, for example, and this person gets into parliament, we don’t know his history, we don’t know who he is, we fall into a trap that democracy puts us in.

Today we have lots of politicians, well known ones, who are involved in suspicious transactions, robbery, and these people are protected by law, that is to say, they won’t get arrested.

But me, a Brazilian citizen, honest, a hard worker, the only reason I don’t work more is that no one hires me, but I do like work, if I do any little thing wrong, that’s it my friend, I’m screwed, because I have no one to “protect” me. I have no lawyer, I would be defended by a public prosecutor, that earns very little, and that would be it.

So that is what is bad about it, got me? And these guys that rob millions and kill millions of children for lack of school, lack of well-being ... I live at Rocinha and I know what is to be without a good health facility, a good school.

Why? Because you should learn things from the bottom, if when you are a child you don’t have a good family, if you don’t have an good school, you turn into a uninteresting adult, and then my friend, you're going to get involved with the wrong people, traffick drugs. I’m not talking about people who steal to defend a cause, I support them.

Now, the ones that have no conscience, who steal only for the money, they are equal to the politicians that are not there to represent the people, only for the money and their own interests.

So in that way, the only reason that a revolution of the oppressed against the oppressor hasn’t occurred yet is that we are a country with beaches, beautiful women, almost naked, and the guys won’t put all that aside to start a revolution, you know? So it is hard, very complicated. But if we make a basic effort, from the beginning, put into the children’s minds that she has rights, responsibilities, and so on, we can change.

And then we can be making movies about others subjects, and not about democracy. Because it won’t be a big deal, you know? Everyone will know about it, how it works, and thaey won’t have the need to make a movie about it.

Do you consider yourself a democratic person?
Look, I have a few things to say. I am what I am now, because I understand what is to be a democratic person. I have a very turbulent life, you know, I didn’t have a family that looked after me when I was a child, or took me into therapy in adolescence, I didn’t have a dental care, I didn’t use to go anywhere.

I ran away very young from the northeast, because I don’t like hard working. Never did. That’s not my deal. And so I ran with the circus, the circus is a very democratic place, you know? Because one day you can be the star, and the other day clean horse shit. And the circus taught me to live in community, in communion with other people that were not my family, that have no relationship with me, except a working one.

I started work very early to support myself. It wasn't about work to make money, sometimes it was about the food. There is a common theory about society here in Brazil, that the tough life that someone might have leads him to a life of crimes or wrongdoing, got it? And I’m not saying that I’m doing the right thing, I might be doing the wrong thing. But I never stole, never did anything that my heart didn’t tell me to do. But that was not because of the family, you see? Because we use to say that family is the support for everything, but it is only a part of it, got it? The school is a base of another part, but the real support comes from within.

And that was what happened to me. Since I was a little boy my dream was to work in a theatre. When I got into the circus there was a theatre part, but it still wasn’t what I really wanted. In fact, it was what I wanted but it wasn’t enough. When I got to Rio I found out that I would have had to conclude my second grade studies to get into a university, and me, well, I’m going to have to go back to school.

I was really bad at it; I used to skip school because I couldn’t stand it. And in fact the school is not a good thing, because it won’t teach you how to think. At a certain point in my life, when I was really disappointed, working in a big theatre here in Rio, living out of a ticket office, so to speak, really starving you see?

Because for you earn 1% or 2% from the ticket office, and then we were only able to put in the audience up to a hundred people, paying popular prices, as we weren’t famous or anything like that, we didn’t make much money. So, I thought, I’m going to the slums to make theatre for those who live there, and so I went and at first it was a big adventure, you see?

But then I realized that theatre could help people and I could be helped in return. And so that’s when democracy happens. What I mean is "I’ll help you with some ability and you help me with your joy, your willpower". And it was a really crazy “marriage”, you see? Because I fell in love, and not only with Rocinha, that is for sure a different slum, because it is located in the south area, between the highest income neighborhoods. That’s why we can find people from the middle class in it, that go to a private school, have health insurance, a car, go to restaurants.

But they still don’t make much of a cultural investment. And why? Because the families don’t go to the library, to the theatre, or movies, see a good film. Because when you want to rent a DVD at Rocinha it is only about bang-bang. Shooting. Those American blockbusters are really bad. If I want to watch a DVD here in my place I’ll have to go to Largo do Machado, or I don’t know where, because I want to watch a movie that helps me think, reflect about things in Brazil and around the world, and not watch a movie only about death, you see? And the good guy at the end is someone with a gun.

So that’s what is missing. But Rocinha’s population is really huge and most of it is middle class with money, lots of it. I don’t even know what you asked me before, but I guess I answered.

Do you think vote is as important thing?
Look, voting is a very important thing. It’s important to have this right so you can pick someone to rule your city, to be a deputy for your state or nationally, a councillor. It is essential to vote, because you have a possibility of choice.

But, as I said before, the most important thing is that people know how to vote, know how to choose, not because someone is white or went to college or even if he is a community leader, or for any other reason. It’s important that people choose for their own convictions, because when that happens and the guy is elected people can go after him and ask about what he promised at the election campaign.

So voting is really important. But the most significant thing, and we don’t even talk about that here in Brazil -- it’s not advertised -- is after the vote. That’s what really matters. It’s the citizens’ participation. After people elect someone, they can get involved, not only helping the elected, but questioning his promises, the ones that helped him be elected.

Do think that democracy is good for everyone, serving all?
No, I think that in theory democracy is very beautiful, fair, but in reality it’s very unequal.